Thursday, April 09, 2009

Do the Liberals even know?

Does the average rank and file LPC member really know which direction the party is going to go once Michael Ignatieff's coup is completed at the "so called" Leadership Convention next month in Vancouver?

Which direction will the party go? What are the policies going to be? What is the plan?

All very valid questions but can any Liberal supporter out there answer any of these questions honestly?

I don't think so.

Here is what we do know:Ignatieff has stated that he is going to be taking the party to the right and his support of the Afghanistan mission, Israel, the CPC crime bills, and the oil sands, lend credence to this directional change.

We also know that ALL of Dion's policies and ideas have to now be considered to be off the table and are not going to be the position of the LPC. Am I wrong? I don't think so. If someone would like to try to prove that I am wrong I would be happy for any Liberal supporter to come here and tell us exactly which of Dion's policies/platform ideas will still stand with Ignatieff in charge. Go ahead the floor is open but no platitudes such as "social justice ," or sustainable ___, please. Save those for the next campaign and just list real ideas.

So unless someone can provide otherwise there is not much information to go on when trying to decipher what direction future LPC policy may take and I think that the little we do know leads to more questions than it does answers about the Liberal Party of Canada under Ignatieff. Serious questions that should be addressed but questions that I doubt will be answered anytime before the members are asked to blindly support the leader their party elite chose for them.

Perhaps it is because I am a conservative and do not have to make decision on Ignatieff as my party's leader, but if you ask me this is a very strange situation for a party that is trying to form a government to be in when even their own members do not even know who their own leader is or what he will do.

And it is too bad really because the grass roots deserves so much better than this.


maryT said...

Another big problem for the new leader is, he has no fresh idea men/women in his caucus. Most of them were there during adscam and other scandals. With the liberals and media now trying to paint the inquiry as a conservative plot to get Brian, I wonder what liberals are afraid of. How many liberals will be caught in this. Why would Marc L. put up that much money for bail for KHS. Has anyone ever asked where he got that money from.
This whole inquiry thing is the result of the liberals and their fake scandal of the week.

Martin said...

Ignatieff has said very clearly that the LPC will own the centre. No mystery.

MaryT, have you heard of Justin Trudeau, Martha Hall-Findlay, Gerard Kennedy, Ruby Dhalla,Bob Rae...the list goes on.

Plenty of fresh faces in the caucus.

Harper can't rely on Adscam forever.

wilson said...

Iffy says libs will 'own' the center,
so that must be why He agrees with most every policy PMSH puts forth, libs are Flexible,
libs have supported the govt 50 times,
right Martin?.

Funny thing, after years of accusing PMSH of far right wing agenda,
liberals now want to 'own' these policies!
Iffy even has a committee for Faith based, who'd of thunk that was center!

Martin, liberals have to EARN votes, they own nothing.
No party owns a segment of the population.

wilson said...

AA, if the leadership race Iffy lost is any indication,
grassroots liberals are not supportive of a HarperLite liberal party.
Iffy was the ONLY rightie in a pack of 10 (?), and lost to Dion.
Stop Iggy worked, then.

Martin said...


Pretty short memory?

During his first term as Prime Minister, Jean Chretien eliminated a $42 billion deficit, five consecutive budget surpluses were recorded, $36 billion in debt was paid down, and taxes were cut by $100 billion (cumulatively) over 5 years. Hardly the actions of a socialist party.

The Liberal Party is Canada's oldest functioning party at the federal level; the only party remaining from Confederation. The Liberal Party has dominated federal politics for much of Canada's history, holding power for almost 69 years in the 20th century, more than any other party in a developed country.

Don't you worry Wilson, Harper's brief 3 years in office will be a blip in the big picture.

caz said...

Socialism...thy name is Liberal. Don't be so quick to dismiss the conservatives. The ridiculous deficit and debt left by Trudeau was what was Mulroney had to deal with. No liberal would ever mention that tidbit.He's constantly lambasted for mishandling the economy. Libs are liars, manipulators and thieves. They did all these wonderful things on the backs of canadians, health care and the military. Nothing to be proud of here. It's nothing for libs to say that ALbertans balanced their budget and eliminated their debt because of the oil...remember...monkeys with their hands behind their backs coul do that!!! But the Libs steal from Canadians for years to do the same thing and they're the heroes??? Please.

Martin said...

Albertans really do suffer from selective memory syndrome.

Trudeau didn't cause Mulroney's $42 billion deficit.

Mulroney's inability to improve the government's finances, as well as his use of tax increases (GST) to deal with it, were major factors in alienating the western conservative portion of his power base. At the same time, the Bank of Canada began to raise interest rates in order to meet a zero inflation target; the experiment was regarded as a failure that exacerbated the effect of the recession in Canada. Annual budget deficits ballooned to record levels, reaching $42 billion in his last year of office. These deficits grew the national debt dangerously close to the psychological benchmark of 100% of GDP, further weakening the Canadian dollar and damaging Canada's international credit rating.

Anonymous said...

The Liberals are not providing very many answers regarding policy direction. They have been consistent on only one issue - universal daycare - that will be a definite vote getter, especially in a recession. Its a keeper! Mary T is right about the lack of fresh ideas and talent in the Liberal ranks. Cheers Fernstalbert

Joanne (True Blue) said...

Which direction will the party go? What are the policies going to be? What is the plan?

Very good question. The only thing that even remotely makes sense is that the Liberals and NDP have a coalition pact planned.

Jen said...

If the liberals claim to have surpluses that's odd, you mean they created a surplus when they made Drastic Cuts too: INFRASTRUCTURE, HEALTH, EDUCATION TO TRANFERE PAYMENTS TO PROVINCES AND TO THE MILITARY and guess what they took that money meant for those areas, for themselves then knowing that the media are dimwits not to say otherwise, proclaim their creation a surplus by raising taxes. That's not all, the liberals took $50billions of EI to pay towards the National Debt (which is legal), but instead of replacing the money, the liberals raised EI premiums.EI scandal is before the courts. There's more.
Guess who gets to clean up this mess, the prime minister stephen harper.
And another thing out of those hidden agenda surplus the liberal pofess to have create went into the liberal caucus media and friends.
The reason why many canadians do not know the happenings and events corruption within the liberal party and the false statments the liberals make is because you have no right to know. that's the LMSM/liberal conspiracy.

Soccermom said...

" have you heard of Justin Trudeau, Martha Hall-Findlay, Gerard Kennedy, Ruby Dhalla,Bob Rae...the list goes on."

OK, thanks a hell of a lot. Now I feel like throwing up...

Trudeau, ewwwwww.

Jen said...

ED STEMACH wants the millions which the liberals failed to return for the past decades. He wants the same treatment quebecoise and altantic timers get. Good on him. It is about time.

I am positive that the PMSH will give it before the thieves return.
Charisse will have to look to Danny Whine for money and since they NFLD joined hands with Quebec; maybe those two can share each other's wealth.
The C/MSM that adores the liberals will have to do a lot of fundraising with their daily dose of manipulation.

Ardvark said...

Justin Trudeau, Martha Hall-Findlay, Gerard Kennedy, Ruby Dhalla,Bob Rae.

Are these people and their ideas still welcome in the new Ignatieff lead Liberal Party?

Anonymous said...

And exactly how many policies or statements have the Cons flip flopped on in the past 6 months? Fixed elections dates, deficit no deficit, no recession to depression back to a recession but only relatively speaking, appointment of Senators, a Canadian in Sudan, etc., etc.,

Problem is there are NO parties which are staying true to their principles.

Ardvark said...

Martin you must have missed the memo.

No more attacks on Mulroney.

Bec said...

Anony @ 10:35 am

The question is direction,policy
and plan.
Avoiding the question, is the point of this post.
So far the Liberal contributors, have proven Ardvark's, point.

wilson said...

Oh Martin,
EVERYTHING chretien and martin accomplished, was because of policy of the PC/Reformers.

Keeping the GST Chretien campaigned on abolishing,
was Mulroney's policy.

Reducing the debt and balanced books, was a stolen Preston Manning/Reform party platform.
An undeniable truth, even libluvin media say so.

Jen covered 'how' the liberals achieved it,
simply by cutting transfers to the provinces,
devastating healthcare,
the decade of darkness for the military....and changing the EI rules then raiding the fund,
using $54 Billion to show FAKE surplus and balanced budgets.

wilson said...

The ONLY credit for policy that the liberals thought up all on their own:

Kyoto, which they never implimented

Nationalized daycare, which they never implimented

Decriminalizing maryjane, which they never implimented

Thr 2million Gun Registry that cost 2 Billion and accomplished nothing

The Green Shift, carbon tax which lost them an election.

Feel free to add to the list.

Oh yah, lots of bright ideas!
The brightest idea libs did impliment was Adscam,
funneling taxpayers money into liberal pockets......

liberal supporter said...

It's quite simple really. The only important difference between the Liberals and the CPC is that the Liberals are not ideologues. Even Dion, who you enjoy painting as a commie, is not an ideologue.

Ideologues are dangerous, which is why Harper has not been able to gain a majority. We know how the Liberals are in majority. Screwing up, scandals, mistakes, spending too much money, plus governing in a benign way. I can live with that. I don't particularly like it, but the current alternative is an ideologue leading a party of ideologues. Plus they'll still have screw ups, scandals and mistakes. And governing in a way that is decidedly NOT benign. Not with every one of our institutions under attack.

So your question demonstrates you don't really see that. The Liberals could have exactly the same policies as the CPC and I would still prefer them, because they will modify or even change those policies as it becomes necessary. Recall Mike Harris in Ontario (who I voted for, believe it or not). The most common claim to fame for Harris is "he did what he said he would do". For some, that says "consistency" and for some that is comforting. For me today, that says "ideologue". Someone so fixed on appearing consistent, he will drive over a cliff because he said he would not turn off the path he set.

One last example: The budget. Current thinking is the CPC did everything the opposition parties demanded, to stave off defeat. One bit of spin says we now have the Liberal budget and if things go bad, the Liberals are somehow at fault because the CPC was forced to write a Liberal budget. But again, it comes back to the difference between ideologues and non-ideologues. Since this is a "Liberal" budget, Harper cannot possibly have his heart in it and will readily allow it to go badly. While Liberals running this budget would be trying to make the deficit based stimulus work, so that eventually taxes will return that money, the CPC will, deliberately or subconsciously, screw it up.

So for me, and likely many others, the specific policies outlined are not as important as who is in charge of implementing them. Ideologues or pragmatists?

hunter said...

This is an excellent post because it exposes the Liberals for what they are, power hungry.

It appears you are infected with trolls. When your post hits the Liberals in the gut, they come out of the woodwork, so this post obviously hit home.

PS. Thank you for taking those pictures for me. It was great meeting you! Kindred spirits I think.

liberal supporter said...

This is an excellent post because it exposes the Liberals for what they are, power hungry.
So you claim the CPC is not power hungry? What with three years of non-stop campaigning? Three years of "not a leader" and other hyperpartisanship? Three years of attacking all of our institutions? Three years of poisoning the well of discourse?

It appears you are infected with trolls. When your post hits the Liberals in the gut, they come out of the woodwork, so this post obviously hit home.
Come on, Hunter, you can come up with something better than that. You always claim "this really hit home" when someone comes up to refute the lies or mock your people.

The mask has slipped off. Is there anyone in these CPC supporting blogs that is not an insider? We know maryT and wilson are. It looks like Hunter and Ardvark are as well. Are you MPs or just their staffers?

At least Paul Szabo owns up to being an insider, though not from your party. Hmmm maybe that's why.

Ardvark said...

LS, Hunter was playing inside baseball with her troll comment. I had made that very comment to her earlier this afternoon when we "insiders" met at a secret location protected by men with guns =)

I will reply to the rest of your comments later when I get a few moments on my own machine.

Ardvark said...

LS aside from the fact that EVERYONE has an ideology, Harper is not the monster that he has been portrayed as and his record easily proves this. He is a guy trying to do what he honestly believes is the best for his country and sometimes this includes doing things not "conservative" as many on this blog roll are only too happy to point out.

Ideologue, I don't think so.

Ardvark said...

LS on the insider thing. Yes I was invited to a private event with the Prime Minister. The phone call with the invite came late Wednesday and was totally unexpected.

No, I am not an MP or a staffer of any kind. Although being either one of those might make for an interesting gig.

I am just an average guy with opinions who like to blog on the subject of politics.

mystereeoso said...

It's true everyone does have an ideology however, that is not what makes PMSH an ideologue. It's his blind power grabbing partisan advocation of and insistence on his own ideology to the exclusion of all others - even in a time of crisis when it amounts to nothing more than theory.

That photo you posted on Hunter's blog leaves one side of PMSH's face a bit blurry. What happened?

Ardvark said...

"It's his blind power grabbing partisan advocation of and insistence on his own ideology to the exclusion of all others"

Do you mean how he has tossed aside "conservative" principles with the deficit budget and asked the Liberals for input with that same budget?

That kind of ideologue?

BTW Iggy and the Liberals did not take him up on the offer.

As for the picture I am not sure what happened. I am just glad the Mountie and myself got the flash to work in time.