The confidence vote happens and the Government loses. Dion starts to hear from upset people all across Canada and after being pushed by frightened leadership candidates he begins to realize that the coalition may not be that great of an idea and backs away.
Layton infuriated by this goes to the GG with Gilles Duceppe and offers up a NDP/Bloc coalition be allowed to form government with Gilles Duceppe as PM since the Bloc has more seats than the NDP.
The GG appoints the duly elected MP from Laurier—Sainte-Marie as PM.
As pointed out by coalition trolls everywhere this scenario would not only be legal & would fit with parliamentary tradition, it would also be the correct thing for the GG to do, and opposing it would make you undemocratic.
Think about that for awhile the next time a coalition troll or party pundit is making the case for this coalition that does not have the balls to put their unholy alliance to a vote before the Canadian people.
BTW, it will be these same 'if it's legal' eagles to be the first to scream if PM Stephen Harper exercises his legal authority and fills the empty seats in the Senate.
Tuesday, December 02, 2008
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15 comments:
What you suggest may well be legal, but the G-G would never consider it because it does not have the support of a majority of the House of Commons. That's why this current deal is so remarkable. It has the support of the majority of Members of Parliament. That's what a Parliamentary democracy is, that's how it works. And that's why Mr. Harper is having problems - he forgot that there is a distinct difference between a Minority government and a Majority one.
It's sad. Too many Canadians, it seems to me, know much too little about our system of democracy...
But the Bloc is NOT part of the coalition either, or so the spin goes, so they do not have the support of the House either.
If what I wrote above is not correct than that means the Bloc IS part of the coalition.
Which one is it?
Are Conservatives really that dense about our parliamentary system? I'm sorry, I don't mean that as an insult, really. But I figured those active in politics had a basic understanding of our democracy. You don't need a majority coalition of the House of Commons to have the confidence of the House of Commons. There is only one way you can do that, with a confidence vote. The first one to get a kick at the can is the returning Prime Minister. If there is none, or if he/she declines, then it is the leader of the Party with the most seats. If they cannot gain the confidence of the House of Commons then the Governor General asks the Leader of the Opposition if he/she thinks he can gain the confidence of the House of Commons. That happened in 1980 and Trudeau said he could not. In our current situation the Liberals, NDP and BQ have sent a letter to the GG making it clear that the Liberal/NDP coalition has the confidence of the House of Commons.
I have a very strong spidey sense, that there is something illegal about the contract Duceppe signed.
If the Duceppe/Dion/Layton contract is not valid, there is no coalition.
I never said that the coalition would not be legal. Immoral and without a real mandate yes, but illegal no.
My point is that I am constantly hearing that because it is legal I should not object to this coalition as this would mean that I would somehow not be supporting democracy. I challenge all of those that are spewing the above spin to look at my very legal scenario where Duceppe becomes PM and ask what would your thoughts be if this happened.
Being legal does not make it right.
What did the NDP and Liberals promise the Bloc for their support?
Shades of Chuck Cadman?
But your scenario would not come into fruition, Ardvark (sic). The only way Duceppe could become PM is if he had the support of the House of Commons. In your scenario, you say he does not, that the Liberals do not support him. The G-G would insist on an election instead.
In what is going on now, the Bloc has pledged its support to the coalition by signing the agreement. It is the signatures of three Opposition party leaders on that agreement. It indicates a majority of the House has lost confidence in the Harper Minority government and gives support for a coalition government.
wilson, your spidey sense probably has more to do with a fear of losing power than anything to do with legalities.
Even if the Duceppe/Dion/Layton contract is not valid there is still a coalition because the contract is NOT the coalition. There is a coalition accord; read it. As for the whole issue of whether it is valid, that's just bogus. They are not going to go into court to have it enforced, so the legally of it is meaningless. It is an outline of what they agree to. I don't blame Conservatives for being opposed to this; I don't blame them for trying to stop it. But there really is nothing they can do to stop it. I know you don't believe me right now, but you will in a couple weeks. Harper has lost the confidence of the House. The Liberal/NDP coalition has the confidence of the House.
Um, how does any minority government get the GG approval since as we have just seen, they may not have the confidence of the house.
Enough what if's, my point has been made that Gilles Duceppe could be named PM, and it would be just as legal, and just as wrong, as having Dion named PM.
Put it to a vote.
Canada is a Confederation. It has 10 provinces and 1 federal government.
Th conservatives won 6 provinces
The Libs won 3 provinces
The Bloc won 1 province
The NDP won 0 provinces.
The conservatives won 7 (including federal) the coalition won 4
The conservatives are more representative than the coalition!!!
According to Parliamentary tradition any leader that approached the Governor General after the defeat of the government to demonstrate that they had the support of the House would have to provide some reasonable argument/evidence that he/she had this support. The Liberals have done this somewhat with their letter but even more so with the Accord. Harper tried to do this before Martin's government failed with a letter signed by himself, Layton and, yes, Duceppe. But it really didn't demonstrate that he had the support of the House. If, however, Duceppe could demonstrate that he had the support of the House then the Governor General would call upon him to be Prime Minister.
Bill, we've had majority governments that only one a majority in roughly two provinces. But that don't mean squat as to who forms government. Man, this isn't that complicated. If you have the support of a majority of MPs you form government (somewhat more complicated, but I'm trying to keep it simple).
Pay attention to what the people of Canada are saying about this. This normally apethetic bunch of which only 59% of them showed up to vote last time are pissed off and there will be a price to pay. Don't think the GG is not paying attention either.
This may mean the end of the Liberal Party of Canada and it might surprise some but I think this is what Jack Layton really had in mind from the start.
The Liberals may indeed pay a price for this. But I don't see the Conservatives winning a majority government if Harper stays on as leader. Frankly, the best thing for Canadian democracy is for the Liberals and Conservatives to dump their current leaders, for their to be some stability in Parliament for a year or so and then have an election. Then I think the game is wide open.
I like PM Harper just fine thank you! Legal does not make it moral, that's why Canadians, not just Conservatives are so upset.
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